Thread: another owners club member caught speeding :(

Originally Posted by NyseriA

It's not as simple as either of us are making out really.

For example, if the offence was committed on the 1st of the month and the NIP was posted on the 3rd of the month but not received until the 20th of the month, then it is still deemed to have been served in the 14 day time limit. However, if it was posted say on the 12th of the month and not received until the 17th of the month, then it's possible that it wasn't served within the 14 days as it's reasonable to assume that any hold up in the post means that it would take a day or two more.

If an NIP is held up in the post then the driver is still, unfortunately, liable to conviction.

Either way, if the NIP is received outside the 14 days you should still always reply to the S.172 notice as that's an offence (not to complete it) in itself. If you do receive an NIP after 14 days then look when it's been served and send back a covering note saying that it was received on date X which is more than 14 days out of the limit.

I think the RAC had a good letter from their legal department to add when I was asked this before

If the above is all cobblers, I'd be much obliged for the right legislation so I don't give out shit advice again

Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 CHAPTER 53


1 Requirement of warning etc. of prosecutions for certain offences

(1) Subject to section 2 of this Act, where a person is prosecuted for an offence to which this section applies, he is not to be convicted unless—

(a) he was warned at the time the offence was committed that the question of prosecuting him for some one or other of the offences to which this section applies would be taken into consideration, or

(b) within fourteen days of the commission of the offence a summons (or, in Scotland, a complaint) for the offence was served on him, or

(c) within fourteen days of the commission of the offence a notice of the intended prosecution specifying the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed, was—

(i) in the case of an offence under section 28 or 29 of the [1988 c. 52.] Road Traffic Act 1988 (cycling offences), served on him,

(ii) in the case of any other offence, served on him or on the person, if any, registered as the keeper of the vehicle at the time of the commission of the offence.


A NIP must be served within 14 day...the day of the offence being day 0.

This includes weekends and bank holidays and postal strikes...



A quote from Gidden v Chief Constable of Humberside [2009] EWHC 2924 (Admin) (29 October 2009)


21.Accordingly, in my judgment, this appeal must succeed. The answer to the question posed in the case stated is that the notice of intended prosecution was not sent in time and could not be regarded as having been properly served. It follows that the conviction must be set aside.

22. I appreciate that this construction of the legislation may create problems for the police and prosecuting authorities, particularly when the postal service is on strike with the inevitable delays in delivery. The authorities must then adopt other means of warning, provided by section 1, if they are to avoid the risk of late delivery. Alternatively, the remedy lies in the hands of Parliament by amending section 1(2) of the 1988 Act. It is not, however, for the courts to overcome the resulting inconvenience by distorting the clear language which Parliament has adopted.

Yes, that's all well and good, but it doesn't negate what I said

If the NIP is posted early (around the few days preceding the offence) it is deemed to be "served" in case law. If there is known to be a postal strike etc on then it's not, as alternative means could have been employed to avoid delivery outside the 14 days.

My NIP was issued 2 days after the offence and arrived a day later by 2nd class post. Why does Royal Mail always come up trumps when you least want them to! :P

What I posted if you read the link is a NIP that was delivered 16 days after the offence...it was late due to a postal strike...he appealed and won...it was not deemed as served until you have it...

3. The appellant appealed to the Crown Court at Great Grimsby against conviction and sentence. He contended that service of the notice of intended prosecution was defective and did not comply with section 1(c) of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988. This requires service to be effected within 14 days. The notice of intended prosecution had been sent to him by first class ordinary post in circumstances where he would ordinarily have been expected to receive it in 14 days, but in fact it was delivered 16 days after the commission of the offence, apparently as a result of delivery delays following a postal strike. The prosecution conceded that the delivery was late.

Originally Posted by NyseriA

Yes, that's all well and good, but it doesn't negate what I said

If the NIP is posted early (around the few days preceding the offence) it is deemed to be "served" in case law. If there is known to be a postal strike etc on then it's not, as alternative means could have been employed to avoid delivery outside the 14 days.

My NIP was issued 2 days after the offence and arrived a day later by 2nd class post. Why does Royal Mail always come up trumps when you least want them to! :P

Can you show the case law about this as I don't know how it's possible to send out a NIP that precedes the offence...That means the NIP is sent before the offence has actually happened?

What happens if a nip goes undelivered?

hehe i aint sayin anythin about me. lol!

i did go to court to explain my actions an was 0.8mph away from a ban. i was lucky but i got away with 4points an a £215 fine. my excuse. was new to the car was over taking in the fast lane didnt realise how fast i was travelling as its a new car an once i realised less then half a mile i pulled over an applyed the brakes an continued normally. luckily the police video was available as im sure me chasing an new audi A5 wouldnt of gone down well lol

P.s yes im an idiot an i cant learn from my mistakes.

i will 1 day :(

Originally Posted by PhilR32

hehe i aint sayin anythin about me. lol!

i did go to court to explain my actions an was 0.8mph away from a ban. i was lucky but i got away with 4points an a £215 fine. my excuse. was new to the car was over taking in the fast lane didnt realise how fast i was travelling as its a new car an once i realised less then half a mile i pulled over an applyed the brakes an continued normally. luckily the police video was available as im sure me chasing an new audi A5 wouldnt of gone down well lol

P.s yes im an idiot an i cant learn from my mistakes.

i will 1 day :(

i take it that was 99.2mph lol very close

you would be correct :\

Originally Posted by Paulie

Can you show the case law about this as I don't know how it's possible to send out a NIP that precedes the offence...That means the NIP is sent before the offence has actually happened?

No, I think you misunderstand what I wrote.

Offence on the first, NIP on the second, deemed as served if anything untoward happens that wasn't predictable.

In that case, I believe the postal strike was a known factor that they did not account for. In that case, it was the polices fault that the NIP did not arrive in time as they could have sent it by courier or by police officer direct to the address.

I'll see if I can find the case law; as I said, I am no expert on this but have heard of cases where a NIP has been deemed as served even though it arrived *with the person* after 14 days. Otherwise, if all NIP are sent by non-recorded post, how does anyone ever get prosecuted if "service" cannot be proven?

What I do remember from a while back is that it's not up to the police to prove that the NIP actually reached the registered keeper within 14 days, it is just for them to prove that in the normal course of events (ie, no postal strikes, etc) it would have arrived at the last known address of the registered keeper with the 14 day time limit.


From the motorlawyers website:

What is the 14 day rule?

The 14 day rule relates only to the period of time in which the Police/Process Unit must serve the original Notice. The Police do not have to prove that the Notice reached its intended recipient within 14 days, merely that in the normal course of events, it should have arrived. In many cases, the registered keeper will be a lease company not the actual driver with the result that even if the driver is unaware of the incident, service of the Notice is good if it was sent to arrive at the registered keeper's last known address within 14 days of the offence.

From the motordefenceteam website:

The obligation on the prosecution is to show they served the Notice of Intended Prosecution 14 days or less from the offence. The day of the offence is not counted in the calculation. They do not have to show you actually received it, so the general rule that post is deemed to be served 2 days after posting applies. If you move house or buy a vehicle and do not register the change of details with the DVLA then the notice will go to the wrong address. As it was due to your default it does not invalidate the notice. Also, if you were driving a company or hire car the notice is sent to the company or hire company. It can be weeks, if not months, before you find out about it but again this does not invalidate the notice.

From the emboldened text, if they post it on the 13th (inside 14 days) and you receive it on the 15th (outside) they fail, epically. If they post it on the 3rd (well within the 14 days) and you receive it on the 15th (outside 14 days) then it is deemed as served as they don't have to prove that the registered keeper received it, just that it was posted on a date which, with no extraordinary intereferences, it's reasonable to believe that it would get there within the 14 days (ie, in a couple of days).

That said, if your NIP is received after 14 days, it may still be invalid so it's certainly worth having a look at more closely!

Edit:

There's loads of conflicting information on different sites; very confusing!

I'll have to wait until I get into work to access the PNLD, wants me to pay for it from home! pfft! ;D

I think you actually don't understand what you said...preceding means before..you said If "the NIP is posted early (around the few days preceding the offence) it is deemed to be "served" in case law."

If you said it proceeding then that is after the offence.

The 1988 law said all NIP's had to be sent by recorded/registered post...that changed in 1994 so they could be sent by regular post.

How do the Police show they served the Notice of Intended Prosecution 14 days or less from the offence if it is sent by normal post and not registered or recorded?

"They do not have to show you actually received it, so the general rule that post is deemed to be served 2 days after posting applies"

The above line goes with what I have been saying....the NIP is not served till the registered keeper receives it...it is not deemed as served at the time it is actually posted but presumably 2 days later when it is delivered.

There are a number of reasons other than postal strike that it may be delivered after 14 days.

The best thing you can do if you get it after the 14 days is get the postman to witness the day he delivered it to prove it arrived late.

If your NIP turns up after the 14 days and it was posted to you a couple of days after the offence you would need to stand in court and swear under oath that it never turned up in 14 days...same as if you never got it at all.

To do this and lie would be to purger your self and you will end up with a lot more than points and a fine if it's proven that you lied under oath...Not a clever thing to do !!!

Like I said earlier it only has to get to the person who's name is on the log book in 14 day..in the case of a hire/company vehicle as long as the registered keeper informs them within 28 days who the driver was the new NIP has to get to the driver within 6 months+28 days or it times out.


When ever the NIP arrives be it before or after the 14 day you are still required to inform them who was driving the car at the time or you would be guilty of "failing to provide"(S.172) which carries 6 points and a fine.


This is a copy of the RAC Letter

The post explains how it should be sent if the NIP arrives after the 14 days.


Just out of curiosity as well you said you got a NIP which was sent by 2nd class post?

According to http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content...&filesize=7567

Notice of Intended Prosecution Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988

Under section 1 ---

(1) Subject to section 2 of this Act a person shall not be convicted of an offence to which this section applies unless he was

(a) warned at the time the offence was committed that the question
(b) within fourteen days of the commission of the offence by summons
(c) within fourteen days of the commission of the offence by notice of the intended prosecution

(i) in the case of an offence under section 28 or 29 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (cycling offences), served on him,
(ii) in the case of any other offence, served on him or on the person, if any, registered as the keeper of the vehicle at the time of the commission of the offence.

(1A) A notice required by this section to be served on any person may be served on that person—

(a) by delivering it to him;
(b) by addressing it to him and leaving it at his last known address; or
(c) by sending it by registered post, recorded delivery service or first class post addressed to him at his last known address.

Which from what I have read means second class post is not a valid method of service under section 1, and the accused is "not to be convicted."

The above is from the amended version The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, Section 6.-(3) inserted the above sub-section into the RTOA 1988.

Originally Posted by Paulie

I think you actually don't understand what you said...preceding means before..you said If "the NIP is posted early (around the few days preceding the offence) it is deemed to be "served" in case law."

I understand what I said in my head, it just didn't transfer to the page correctly because I am a dumbass

The above line goes with what I have been saying....the NIP is not served till the registered keeper receives it...it is not deemed as served at the time it is actually posted but presumably 2 days later when it is delivered.

The police don't have to show the RK received it though. It's them posting it early enough for it to get through in good time (ie, 2 days) that deems it served.

If I ever got a NIP after 14 days, I'd kick up a fuss though, no matter when it was served. I personally think the whole system of NIP/Speeding is a shower and if they spent as much time and effort on crap driving and proper crime, the world would be a better place.

Just out of curiosity as well you said you got a NIP which was sent by 2nd class post?

Which from what I have read means second class post is not a valid method of service under section 1, and the accused is "not to be convicted."

You could have told me that in 2008 ffs

Heh, yeah it was definitely a franked second class delivery from the Manchester CTO. Can't go back and change it now, but I never knew that. Thanks for the heads up for next time!