[Khurrum]

Hello all,

I appreciate my car is not a R32 but I have had no luck on the Audi forums so need some help please.

Car: 2006 A3 3.2 Quattro DSG, Engine Code BMJ

I bought this car after the chain had been replaced, the car was misfiring heavily and the owner had got sick and tired of it. I checked the MBV's and thought to check the timing first, I found it was incorrectly set as the intermediate pulley was half a tooth out. I also found that the filter on the camshaft adjustment unit was damaged, I repaired this with the same grade mesh, stripped down the camshaft adjustor's and adjustment unit rebuilt and put the car back together.

The timing was set correctly, the car start and idles fine (checked cam positions in MBV's) but does lacks power. Looking at the measuring blocks below it appears that the camshaft adjustment unit is faulty, as the cam timing is not being adjusted as the ECU specifies. I am thinking it could either that the cam adjusment unit is getting any oil, or I have not put it back together correctly. Does anyone have any experience on this? Thanks

Address 01: Engine (022 906 032 GJ)

19:35:01
2680 /min Engine Speed (G28)
33.0°KW Adjustment (specified)
0.0°KW Adjustment (actual)
2.0°KW Adjustment (specified)
-2.5°KW Adjustment (actual)
124 Phase Position Intake Cam.
0.0°KW Intake Cam. Offset
73 Phase Position Exhaust Cam.
3.0°KW Exhaust Cam. Offset
Sunday,02,June,2013,20:54:13:19586
VCDS Version: Release 11.11.5
Data version: 20121222

Address 01: Engine Labels: 022-906-032-BDB.LBL
Control Module Part Number: 022 906 032 GJ HW: Bas isX 3
Component and/or Version: MOTRONIC ME7.1.1G 7001
Software Coding: 0000178
Work Shop Code: WSC 06314 000 00000
VCID: 59B3A0499055F0D0062
4 Faults Found:

18630 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B2 S1
P2198 - 004 - Signal too High (Rich)
16424 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Signals Swapped
P0040 - 008 - B1-S1 / B2-S1
16395 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake)
P0011 - 008 - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)
16398 - Bank 1: Camshaft B (Exhaust)
P0014 - 008 - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)

 

[CorradoR32]

Interestingly enough, I had VVT issues on my Audi BDB engine (the earlier version of yours). When my intake cam wasn't advancing, it was because the actuator solenoid wasn't working. It made a loud buzzing noise (they're normally inaudible). If I tapped it with a hammer, stopped the engine, then restarted it, it then worked. Can you hear any buzzing noises from your solenoids?

Your cams are a little advanced actually. They normally sit at -3 (intake) and -1 (exhaust). I think you may have advanced the cams a tooth?

If not that, then I guess it must be to do with the VVT unit. Maybe get another from ebay but it needs to be the same part no as yours.

 

[CorradoR32]

P.S. Were the 3 sealing rings on the end of the cams when you put the VVT adjusters back on, with staggered gaps?

 

[Khurrum]

Hello,

No buzzing noises from the solenoid valves but when I perform an output test using VCDS I can here the clicking which indicates they are working.. As the filter was damaged I stripped down the valve timing unit and think I have not set the position of the little valves inside correctly. I was hoping somebody knows how to put these back together as ELSA has no information on it.

I do not think it would idle as well as it does if the timing was a tooth out, I locked the cams in position, checked the marks on the cam adjusters turned the engine over and everything still lined up.

Yes I did replace and set the sealing rings 120 degrees apart on the camshafts.

Will be stripping it down this weekend and performing an output test on the solenoid valves while the unit is disassembled to make sure how far they travel and then set the pilot valves accordingly.

Regards
Khurrum

 

[CorradoR32]

R32s can run fine a tooth out (many already do from the factory), as did the previous 12V VR6 engine, but fair enough, you sound like you know what you're doing and we can outrule the cam timing.

It can only be, as you say, how you've rebuilt the VVT variator unit. I've never taken one apart so you know more than me on that one

Good luck and keep us posted as it's all great knowledge to learn. There is precious little information on R32s at this kind of level, so hats off to you mate!

 

[fis1227]

I have two vvt sensors off my old engine, I presume they work it's off of a bub engine. Looks like them in the picture, you can have them if you stand the postage

 

[Khurrum]

I have two vvt sensors off my old engine, I presume they work it's off of a bub engine. Looks like them in the picture, you can have them if you stand the postage

Wow, thanks ! I am going to strip it down tomorrow to carry out some more investigation, so may give you a shout. Where about are you in the UK ?
Regards

 

[fis1227]

I'm in nottingham pal just give us a shout if you need them

 

[CorradoR32]

That is some amazing generosity! These things are £700 each from VW!!

 

[Khurrum]

Hi Guys,

Just an update, stripped it down again after engine flush oil change, internals of engine is much cleaner, tested the Variable Timing Housing actuators and they are functioning fine, Will be rebuilding the unit again. Have been in touch with RossTech and have the response below: I am going to check:

The oil flow to the VVT unit (by installing the cam adjustor's without the housing and turning the engine over)
Oil pressure using a gauge
Oil pick-up strainer in the sump

mailto:[email protected]
Sent: 11 June 2013 03:28
To: Khurrum Sattar
Subject: Re: Support Request - 2005 A3 3.2 DSG, Engine Code BMJ

Hello,

Thank you for sending us the information. Have you conducted an oil pressure test. This system will need the correct oil pressure and volume to function as designed.

The oil pressure should be:
(As per the repair manual)
- "Minimum oil pressure at 1500 rpm: 1.7 bar."
- "Minimum oil pressure at 2000 rpm: 2.5 bar."

If not reached check the oil pressure relief valve and or the oil pump, if the specifications are met, the oil is most likely being blocked to the adjusters.

The camshaft adjusters are basically the last in line to receive oil supply and the pressure. With out this pressure, the 'Retard Set-point not Reached' fault will occur when the ECM commands the 'Retard Set-point' adjustment to be completed and there is not enough oil pressure to move the adjuster.

Hope this helps.

Technical Support
Ross-Tech.com

On 6/10/2013 4:24 AM, Khurrum Sattar wrote:
> Hello
>
>
>
> Find attached log file.
>
>
>
> Just to confirm my understanding: The Variable Valve Timing is
> responsible for advancing the timing and does this by diverting the
> oil through the valve timing housing into the cam adjustor and
> advancing the inlet camshaft and advancing/retarding the exhaust
> camshafts. I have set the cam timing as per the ELSA procedure where
> the marks line up between the cam adjustors/ valve timing housing and
> I can insert the plate in the slot at the end of the camshafts. The
> intake cam adjustor is set at the maximum retard point as it does not
> have a locking pin and the exhaust cam adjustor is set with the
> internal locking pin in place. Also if the timing was set incorrectly
> I would have seen this in MBV 208/209 where the "Cam Offset" would be
> outside the specification. (had this problem when I bought the car)
>
>
>
> Looking at the data it is obvious that the specified values for the
> cam adjustment are not being achieved and I also confirmed this via
> the test under "Basic Settings". I have conducted the output tests on
> the valve timing adjustment actuators and these are also functioning
> well (clicking and moving). What I am struggling to understand is when
> driving/revving the engine the Specified cam adjustments are positive)
> but the fault codes generated are that the P0011 - 008 - Retard
> Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced), surely a positive specified
> value would be requesting for the timing to advance and hence the code would be Over Retard?
>
>
>
> Some additional information:
>
> · Symptom: The car does drive but does not have any power, when I
> bought it, it was misfiring. (No reading on "Cam Offset" in MBV 208)
>
> · Parts replaced: Timing chains, timing chain guides, timing chain
> tensioners, (by previous owner), intake cam adjustor, filter to valve
> timing housing, rings between valve timing housing/camshafts.
>
> · Work (by me): Stripped down, found intermediate chain pulley not
> times correctly, changed inlet cam adjuster (had to swap over sensor
> sender wheel, stripped down exhaust cam adjustor and cleaned, stripped
> down and cleaned valve adjustment body, engine flush, new oil and filter.
>
> · The next thing I was going to check is to turn the engine over
> without the valve timing housing, camshafts etc and see if the timing
> housing is getting oil supplied from the cylinder head side.
>
>
>
> Also do you have any information on the code below? I cannot find it
> on the Rosstech wiki.
>
>
>
> 17278 - SAE - Transmission Component Slipping
>
> P0894 - 004 -
>
>
>
> Finally I am aware that this issue is beyond the standard support for
> VCDS software, so if you require for me to pay for this on your Pay As
> You go support service then please advise as I am more than happy to do so.
>
>
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: 07 June 2013 21:50
> To: Khurrum Sattar
> Subject: Re:Support Request - 2005 A3 3.2 DSG, Engine Code BMJ
>
>
>
> Hello Khurrum,
>
>
>
> Sorry for the delay, both Sebastian and Andy are on vacation so we're
> cleaning up the pending emails before the weekend.
>
>
>
> Fault codes such as Advance Setpoint not Reached (Over-Retarded)
> and/or
>
> (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28 Incorrect Correlation can be related
> to mechanical timing or insufficient oil pressure but it looks like
> you have Over-Advanced issues at this point. Oil pressure isn't
> likely although mechanical timing and adjuster issues can still be possible causes.
>
>
>
> It looks like that log was from MVBs 208 and 209 but something isn't
> adding up when I lay that out with the label file. If you would like
> us to review the live info from this controller at idle please use the
> [Add to Log] function and attach the saved file to your next reply so
> we have something that looks more like this:
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.ross-tech...ks-save-908.txt>
> http://www.ross-tech...ks-save-908.txt
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> On 6/3/2013 9:12 AM, Khurrum Sattar wrote:
>
>> >Hello,
>> >
>> >Checked all parts and have got the car timed up correctly (the last
>> >person had timed it up with the intermediate pulley in the wrong
>> >position as a result the cam to crank was 1/2 tooth out ! It idles
>> >fine now and I can read the MBV for both cams positions, measuring
>> >blocks 208 and 209 for both the camshafts are within specification
>> >(within
> + -

which is great:
>
>> >
>> >I do have one problem and suspect it is the valve timing adjustment
>> >body. I changed the filter on it and also took it apart, cleaned and
> reassembled.
>
>> >Looking at the measuring blocks below it appears that the camshaft
>> >adjustment unit is faulty. I am thinking it could either be that it
>> >is not getting any oil, or I have not put it back together correctly.
>> >Thank you in advance really appreciated.
>> >
>> >Address 01: Engine (022 906 032 GJ)
>> >
>> >19:35:01
>> >2680 /min Engine Speed (G28)
>> >33.0°KW Adjustment (specified)
>> >0.0°KW Adjustment (actual)
>> >2.0°KW Adjustment (specified)
>> >-2.5°KW Adjustment (actual)
>> >124 Phase Position Intake Cam.
>> >0.0°KW Intake Cam. Offset
>> >73 Phase Position Exhaust Cam.
>> >3.0°KW Exhaust Cam. Offset
>> >Sunday,02,June,2013,20:54:13:19586
>> >VCDS Version: Release 11.11.5
>> >Data version: 20121222
>> >
>> >Address 01: Engine Labels: 022-906-032-BDB.LBL
>> >Control Module Part Number: 022 906 032 GJ HW: Bas isX 3
>> >Component and/or Version: MOTRONIC ME7.1.1G 7001
>> >Software Coding: 0000178
>> >Work Shop Code: WSC 06314 000 00000
>> >VCID: 59B3A0499055F0D0062
>> >4 Faults Found:
>> >
>> >18630 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B2 S1
>> > P2198 - 004 - Signal too High (Rich)
>> >16424 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Signals Swapped
>> > P0040 - 008 - B1-S1 / B2-S1
>> >16395 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake)
>> > P0011 - 008 - Retard Setpoint not Reached
>> >(Over-Advanced)
>> >16398 - Bank 1: Camshaft B (Exhaust)
>> > P0014 - 008 - Retard Setpoint not Reached
>> >(Over-Advanced)
>> >
>> >Regards
>> >
>> >Khurrum Sattar

>> >

 

[Khurrum]

Update:

Update:

Disassembled the valve timing housing, I found that I had fitted the pilot valve carrier incorrectly. They need to be hard up agaisnt the actuators and peened over. Then pressed into the valve timing housing.

Variable valve timing works fine and checked it with vcds, all I got to do know is check why the hole in the rocker cover is whistling.

Thank you.

 

[CorradoR32]

Probably the oil seperator in the rocker cover. They have a little valve in it.

 

[Khurrum]

Probably the oil seperator in the rocker cover. They have a little valve in it.

The rubber diaphragm in that oil separator is cracked and perished ! (pic below)

 

[fis1227]

Looks like you have sorted it pal!

 

[Khurrum]

Looks like you have sorted it pal!

Can't find that breather anywhere ! Part number is 022 103 515 A , I have a terrible feeling its part of the rocker cover :-/

 

[CorradoR32]

Yup, it is. £75+VAT when I bought one in 2011.

 

[Khurrum]

Hi CorradoR32

What do you think of this, I was searching online and came across this for the 2.0T FSI engine

Crankcase breather A4 2004-2012,

So went to Sanburn to see if he had anything similar, found the orange diaphragm inside the breather above (from a BWE engine)

Its slightly thicker and the spring that came with is is shorter, I was thinking to give it a go with the longer spring from the original 3.2 engine.

(I know I should order the complete cylinder head cover, but I'm being a tight git lol! £160+)

Regards
Khurrum
facebook.com/vprouk

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[CorradoR32]

£160! Wow that's gone up a lot!

You could try PMing Lucifer as he's usually got tonnes of bits and might have a MK5 rocker cover.

I would steer clear of the TFSI breathers to be honest as they seem to allow a lot of gunk into the engine, but then again, TFSI's 'breathe' a lot more than the R32 does anyway.

 

[Khurrum]

Yes extortion indeed, looking at this:

It appears that the function of the diaphragm is only to act as a sealing interface, which would mean that the pressure is regulated by the length (stiffness factor) of the spring

Given the above I will give it a go with the orange diaphragm.

(I've bypassed the rads at the moment so don't need to put the front panel on, hence not that much work involved...)

Keep you posted on how it goes ....

(Yes I like to live on the edge lol)

 

[CorradoR32]

Yeah, won't hurt to try it!

VAG call the breather on the R32 a "Cyclone oil seperator" and I think it works differently to the TFSI one. There's more info about it on page 22 of this doc - http://sandbox.enjoybeing.net/veedub/vw_vr6_self_study.pdf

Good luck!