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I am no expert on this swap, but others have done it with minor wiring adaptations because, as you say, essentially the same architecture in the engine. If this 3.6 is in good condition, then it is a bargain but if it needs a rebuild , then not quite so good
 

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Discussion Starter · #82 ·
Well, too good to be true. After some miscommunication, the seller doesn't have it anymore. Jist not pullong the ad down cuz he's got other 24v motors that i'm not interested in.

That said, did some research, downloaded woring diagrams and compared things from that aspect and yeah, pump control module and pump is all you need. There's literally one connection between the module and the ecu that needs to be made if you don't just buy a whole doner car and pinch the body harness.

So, all of this means that i will not shift focus from the chassis/suspension in the near term but i will keep an eye out for this. If i am lucky, that could be a very "affordable" alternative to a turbo that gets me to my goals.

As for rebuilding.... my 3.2 has 275,000kms on it with unknown service history. It's undoubtedly no longer springtime fresh. To say that it won't need love in it's time with me would be a bit optimistic if you asked me.

At any rate, these are nice problems to have n fun to solve....we'll see.
 

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Discussion Starter · #83 ·
So, after more research, the 3.6 is becoming a quite attractive proposition. Basically the last stumbling block is dealing with immo and unlocking the ecu. I need to deal with immo delete at some point anyways. I know little about it other than there's some 5 digit code you need to enter in order to either pair the ecu with a new car or defeat immo altogether. Of course, these codes are a closely guarded secret on par with the nuclear football... unitronic is a couple hours from here and i have enquired with them to see if the solution is as simple as handing them the ecu and cluster and saying make it work.

If it's that simple and the auction q7 i am looking at goes for a reasonable sum, then later this winter once the shell is done, there could be a donor q7 in the shop getting torn up. I figure if i get the right one for the right price, i can get the swap parts for $1500 just by selling the cats, brakes and wheels. That is a very acceptable price considering turboing the 3.2 will easily total $10k if not more when it's all done.
 

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You have been busy doing your research. Your 3.2 at 275k will be well and truly run in. Tempting to put it back in and for it to end its life on the track. Downside is that if that end date occurs on the exit of the second corner of the first lap of your first track day , you would be forgiven for being very slightly irritated . Hence the temptation to fit an engine that will give you the power and the durability you want and not require fitting more than once .
As for ECU unlocking, in theory any VW/Audi dealership should be able to do that , but having been to my local one to ask about flashing a mk6Golf R parametric power steering curve on to a reconditioned gen 3 rack ( R32 is gen 2 ) to be advised that I would need to purchase the appropriate Golf R rack ( £1425 to you sir ) when VW released about 15 different such power steering curves which dealers should in principle have access to, do not bank on a dealer being able to unlock an Ecu for you .
As for the Turbo route , I agree. Set aside £10k . Someone over here on Facebook and on this forum has a newly built turbo engine complete for £6k which is a decent price , but having just spent , err, a little on the rear end of my car , sinking another £6k into it this side of Christmas would not play well with the Chancellor ( ie wife )
 

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Discussion Starter · #85 ·
On a long enough timeline, i would likely need to open a motor with either the 3.2 or 3.6. The difference in parts prices is probably irrelevant, if they are even different (big things like crank and pistons aside). I figure if i did well with the donor vehicle purchase and part the easy stuff, i could probably break even selling the 3.2 if i was pressed.

To my mind right now, it depends on how much a q7 actually goes for at auction and the feasibility of the ecu question. I'll have both answers tuesday in all likelihood. I figure worst case i would be $2000 out of pocket initially. Notwithstanding logistics of getting the donor home. (Which could be an adventure depending on how illegal i feel like being lol).

If i did go for it, i would keep the 3.2 as a backup if the 3.6 popped or build up a turbo slowly if i grow that money tree and the 3.6 isn't enough.

And yeah, those financial controllers really stick it to ya lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #87 ·
Crap. Unitronic can deal with unlocking the ecu for all of $200. There's a scrapyard not terribly far away that has a touareg 3.6. Been there since mid september though.....

This just got very real and tempting.
 

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Difficult one . If the 3.6 is in good shape and has not done starship mileage , the $200 might be a decent compromise as you would not be spending much extra for a good hike in torque and power . You have certainly got me thinking about that option as a cheaper route than forced induction . Having spent Sunday with a friend at a track day , once out on the track, the power unit is shown no mercy , so strength and reliability are crucial . Leaving 6 litres of sump oil in mid corner wins one absolutely no friends on a track day .
 

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Discussion Starter · #89 · (Edited)
So. I took a run up there yesterday and lo and behold, the engine is still in it.

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Car is slated to be crushed later this week and the weather is getting crappy fast. I am taking a sick day today..... i took the ecu out yesterday as that was easy.

Depending on how much of a stickler they are for their pricing list, might get it for $400. I suspect it'll be closer to $600 with manifolds and cooling/oil pipes. I am willing to risk this amount. If it's got bottom end issues, i can likely get half that or more back selling the top end.

No idea on mileage (ithink they write in on the car, need to pay more attention). As i said, the chances of me never opening my 3.2 are slim to none. It's missing a few things on the induction but it would seem i can use at least some of it from the 3.2. Jury is still out on MAF.
The most expensive limiting factor on using a touareg/q7 donor will be the oil pan. You need the one from the passat along with pickup tube. The block is actually different (the whole motor is actually) so the 3.2 stuff won't fit. The cooling sytem is all different as is the accessory drive (note the hydraulic ps pump). Again, for the price i am gonna get this for, willing to play and experiment a bit.

Plan is to get it home today and stuff it in a corner till next week when i can hopefully get it on a stand and see if i wasted time effort and money.

Oh, and my apologies for infecting you with my madness!
 

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Oil pan is a nuisance but thanks for that tip. No need to apologise. I pick up infections of the automotive variety very easily . I assume that the Q7 would have the same issue . Passat oil pan might be a bit more tricky to find . I am impressed with your ‘ have an idea, lets crack on and give it a whirl ‘ approach . I confess that I spent a lot of time and money experimenting with a duel calliper rear brake set up which I ultimately abandoned in favour of an integrated 4 piston calliper with built in handbrake . I got some of my money back selling the bits I had bought, cleaned , restored etc but £100 worth of aluminium ,£50 worth of bolts and hours on my mill went down the toilet .
 

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Discussion Starter · #91 ·
Hey, sometimes you win, sometime you lose.

I am going to say this is an initial win. Just got back from the scrap yard. Including the ecu yesterday, i am $650 into this idea. The bonus is that just as i got the engine on the cart, they brought a q7 in. I scored some 18z calipers as well. These go for $400 every day here. So, potentially i got a 3.6 engine swap for $250 after i get the outta here. So at that price, the idea doesn't really hafta work at all....

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Discussion Starter · #92 ·
So, a few observations right off the bat:

The front of the block is totally different. So alternator mounting is going to be interesting. The touareg oil filter housing is the drivers side (over here anyways!!) Engine mount. Hoping the 3.2 unit will transfer. Cooling plumbing is a whole can of wtf for me right now (well, so is the 3.2!).

Scariest part of the process will be the fact that the engine mount holes in the block have not been drilled/tapped. I will have to do it.
 

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First off, the 18Z are a bonus. For a track car , I would go for something lighter, but they do offer very powerful braking . As you say though, they are very saleable . As for the engine, I had not appreciated how different the actual installation was compared to ‘our’ 3.2 engines . However, you have the luxury of an empty engine bay and a track car build, so you are not fussed about aircon , you can use a much smaller alternator ( like a Brise ) steering is electric so no hydraulic pump etc.I am also assumimg that you do not have to keep the ABS system , unless you plan to keep the car road legal , in which case your options are reduced, but if not , you could go a step further and go aftermarket ecu, digital dash and do away with the VW Canbus etc . However, probably a good idea to get the cage in first and then develop the next stage .
 

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Discussion Starter · #94 · (Edited)
I already have a pair of 18z on the car, the ones i got yesterday are the second that i picked up purely for sale and was completely a chance opportunity.

Yeah, i didn't appreciate the differences till now either. They are subtle but at the same time significant. It may not be so bad, still looking into things. Yeah, i have the luxury of no air con but i will compare brackets, maybe the compressor is in the same place. I'd like to avoid custom alternator mounting n stuff just to keep it simple.

What i have confirmed so far though is that the oil filter/cooler is shared between the passat r36 and the r32, so that's a relief. Bot cars use a returnless fuel system, but fsi runs at 6.4 bar vs 4. Thankfully that is easily taken care of by replacing the fuel filter/regulator with one from a mk5 2.0t. I have yet to confirm if the soft line between the body and engine that contains the pressure sensor is the same between passat and gti. The low pressure side connection to the fuel rail will require fabrication or $$$$. There is a connection to the soft line by the timing chains on the touareg. Of course that's the wrong spot for a mk5, it needs to be byvthe serp belt. The passat high pressure fuel rail also has the low pressure line running alongside. But like i said, $$$$ for that part. I'm going to see about making my own line for that. I may make my own soft line as well if it proves to make life simpler. Luckily it is a threaded connection at the rail so maybe i'll get lucky with an an adapter and hardline....

Cooling pipes are different between all 3 variants of vr6. But sorta moot in my mind as no one in their right mind not not replace them if you already in there on a vr6. You want the passat r36 pipes. That said, i am going to investigate cooling simplification. My mk3 ran a gutted t-stat and no bypass. It had like 4 lines and it ran beautifully cool even in 35⁰. I my try to do something similar while keeping the electric pump.

My 3.2 throttle body does mate to the manifold. I was just too late to get the 3.6 one. It may be prudent to get a 3.6 if you can.

Then of course the aforementioned oil sump and pickup tube.

And then there is the consideration of what's missing/broken given it's 2-1/2 months at a pick n pull. I will likely be better served getting another engine harness, the manifold has a broken nipple on a vacuum port and all the hoses had been cut/missing. All of which can be easily remedied by seeing when the next one gets in to the yard and pulling as much as i can.

So, this could add up quite quickly in the bank account unless you get scrappy. I'm still thinking i am gonna give it a shot in the interests of science. I first need to get it on a stand and do a quick assessment of condition to see if it'll be worth it. Though my 3.2 may not be in better shape either....
 

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Discussion Starter · #96 ·
No worries. Basically it looks like the fuel system is the most complex issue to solve, thankfully it's on the low pressure side so easily fixable at home. the rest is VAG lego....

And those goddamn 3 holes in the block i gotta drill.... REALLY not looking forward to that. Think i need to make some sort of drill guide for them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #97 ·
Well, surprisingly the chinesium emporium called rockauto actually had an aftermarket passat r36 oil pan for 1/4 the price of the oe one. Last one in stock so snagged it. Have a line on a few other missing bits.

Started stripping the block down and infortunately, about half the wires had been cut over time so i just said screw it and hacked the rest out. It'll make for good repair sections i guess. Chains should be good as i know they've been done. How do i know? The 2 bolts that go between the upper and lower timing cover are missing lol. Gotta crack the crank bolt loose (god i hate that task) then i can get it on the stand n see what i've got.

Once i have assesed it i'll set it aside till the shell is where i want it to be.

The car goes to the cage bright n early monday morning.
 

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Discussion Starter · #98 ·
So, skipped the crank bolt and popped it on my engine stand last light. Had a chuckle as i saw the extra hole i drilled in one of the arms to fit the vr6 from my corrado about 15 years ago.

Anyways, the good news is that i popped off the oil pan and valve cover and everything looks good. I think i have a good motor to work with here. I haven't looked at the chains yet and i am on the fence about pulling the head. I may just see about getting a cheap borescope as opposed to disturbing the head.

Looked at the accessory bracket this morning and the ac compressor is mounted a couple inches lower on the 3.6, but looks to be the same orientation. I suspect the r32 ac lines would still be ok. I shudder to think about the cost of the r36 ac lines if you insisted on keeping it. Serp belt routing looks as though you'd want to figure a way to put an idler in one of the then unused ps pump holes.

All in all, aside from the fuel system plumbing fabrication and the engine mount hole drilling, it looks like this will be a fairly straightforward operation. I'm going to work on finding an engine harness and the rest should be more or less regular engine refreshing tasks.

Oh, and coilovers shipping out imminently.
 

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Brilliant work and good news on your engine. For the block drilling , you need a jig .As it is an engine mounting , an old mount is your starting point for the hole pattern and spacing . Then a block of aluminium for the jig . Pillar drill would be nice to make the jig . This will be time consuming but, as you know only too well, for this one you definitely do not want to be at home when Mr. and Mrs. Cockup drop round for tea and biscuits . Upside is that cast steel is quite nice to drill and tap , as long as the drill is sharp and the tap clean .
 

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Discussion Starter · #100 · (Edited)
Yep, brave pills for sure when i do that job. Going to use steel for the guide as i don't want to chance goingvsideways because the bit chewed into the aluminum.

Also, ypu'd mentioned abs delete before. Missed that. Can't delete it as speedometer and haldex get their info from abs sensors which are wired directly to the abs unit on the firewall. I have been advised that if i remove it, there may be some bias issues (you'd think a manual prop valve would take care of that) but then no speedometer or awd. At the least. I bet dsg would be unhappy too.

Another solution is to remove the pump. Electrical signals are undisturbed just no abs and therefore an error light.

Or just leave it in and have the luxury of a safety net if i do something stupid.

I am leaving it in lol. We'll see if it becomes a hindrance.

Edit: and good info for anyone thinking about being dumb as me. It looks like 100% of the bottom end and about 75% of the top end bearings, seals and gaskets are common between 3.2 and 3.6. What this means in my particular case is that i can get all the engine refresh parts on a shelf and not have painted myself into a corner if i chicken out on the swap.

If is good info to know though as not all online places have listings for the 3.6 but they do for the 3.2.
 
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