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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Basicly I got the possiblity to buy a pair of new HGP manifolds with new K04-023 turbo's on them. Ofcourse I need to modify some more things to change from my current HGP460 (single R30 turbo) to this bi-turbo setup.

From what I read HGP/HPA used to have twin K04 turbo's in their setups but later they changed to GT25's, GT28's and even GT28RS's.

My question: Is it worth it to go this bi-turbo route or should I avoid the twin K04 setup?
 

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Everybody knows that two turbos are better than one!
 

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Really KO4's ...............

Surely HPA/HGP moved away from them as they dont flow enough to produce serious power???

I mean a KO4s only reach around the 300 mark on a 1.8T before they run out of puff???

Wez
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Really KO4's ...............

Surely HPA/HGP moved away from them as they dont flow enough to produce serious power???

I mean a KO4s only reach around the 300 mark on a 1.8T before they run out of puff???

Wez
Dont know the exact reason behind changing turbo's down the line but dont forget that on a 1.8T you only have 1 and allot smaller displacement. On a R32 you got 2 of those turbo's and a bigger engine. HPA ran them at 550hp from what I can find on vwvortex etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
550 doesnt sound too bad
 

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Dont know the exact reason behind changing turbo's down the line but dont forget that on a 1.8T you only have 1 and allot smaller displacement. On a R32 you got 2 of those turbo's and a bigger engine. HPA ran them at 550hp from what I can find on vwvortex etc.
Okay yea thats makes sense i didn't think about it that way!

1.8T Ko4 gives around 290-300 with supporting mods
3.2 Ko4 x2 ould have double the flow rate and only be feeding 3 cylinder each


Wez
 

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What's even better is that i have 3x Ko4's in my garage from m old build 2 are mint and one needs a rebuild


Wez
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hmmm.. choices choices haha
 

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The difference between a single and a twin? Torque, and gobs of it.

Sure, you can get a big single to make similar power and high end torque, but its much further up the power band.
It's very simple to compare the two from a daily driver perspective. The twins feel like you are driving a big V8 with almost zero lag, especially with the K04's, To get similar bhp numbers out of a big single you have to live with some amount of lag.

The original K04 kit was used on the earliest of kits and netted around the 450 bhp mark. They made great useable power but didn't flow well up top at all. These were ultimately phased out for the hybrid GT series noted above.

My car started with a GT30 in the FT400 and FT450 kit, then progressed to the GT35 in the Black Jack kit, and then finally the twin GT28RS's in it's current configuration.

While the Black Jack makes similar power figures on paper, on the street the low end efficiency of the twins leaves the GT35 in it's wake.

If going twins, remember to upgrade the gears as well. They WILL fail with the increased low end torque the twins produce unless you do something about it. This was the primary motivator to go DSG on my car...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Would it be easy to upgrade from the K04's to GT28RS's in the future or would that involve allot of extra work?
 

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Good info Skela


If going twins, remember to upgrade the gears as well. They WILL fail with the increased low end torque the twins produce unless you do something about it. This was the primary motivator to go DSG on my car...
From your response to this I think you've not spent years reading vwvortex and all the many, many American owners who've "big turbo'd" their cars.
Your car's drivetrain will break all the time. Not just a one off 'oh lets try this gear set' and then everything is ok. It will break, snap, bend, shatter, destroy, break again every bit until you give up.

I think you especially need to read about a chappy in the US called Ben Guild, aka "Smashparts". There is a whole storey/history behind him/HPA and his twin turbo R32. The general jist is like most modified car owners: he wanted more power, spent loads of money with HPA, but things kept breaking until he sold the car.


You could do the wise thing that Skela and also Bam in the UK did, and do a DSG conversion. Mehh... I'm massively anti automatics - but if you want to make your R into an auto then go ahead...

There are rare exceptions...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4108171-my-R36-bigturbo-build..

But I don't think you're a highly skilled mechanic, fabricator and car builder that does this stuff for a living like the gentleman above.

Now, the following is just my 'educated guess' and I have no experience of: If you were to go to HGP, tell them what you want, and they did everything including the gearbox with 'their' parts, presented you with a bill of € € € € € € € € € € € € € 's then yes, you would have a good setup that would work. I have very little idea of how 100% reliable HGP twin's are over a long period of time - I don't read the German R forums (though you could/should).

However, my guess is even if you did this you'd still want more - since to make the big Turbo R's reliable, HGP/HPA have conservative maps that aren't quite as exciting as others, but can be more reliable as a result.
...And then you're back at the start of the cycle wanting more power again...

T
 

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He could ask Sir Henri....he had a couple of Bi Turbo cars...I never heard him say his gearbox had gone..I am sure at least one was a manual as well.
And not everyone wants more power...I am very happy with mine and not thinking about upgrading mine


Mine is exciting enough


I am getting the comp intercoolers but i don't think they give more power really
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I think you hit a very good point there. There is always the dream for more.

At first when I bought my R32 I thought it was super fast, then it became to feel very slow and I wanted more power. Then the HGP460 kit came allong and I thought it was super fast again. Now I am on a point where I feel its kinda fast but not super fast and I want more. If you are in this cycle you will never have enough.

I will think this over and see what I'll do. I was also considering buying a Mk4 R32 DSG and swap all the suspension etc etc etc and sell the manual R32 when its back to stock.

Besides stronger dsg clutch discs would I need to strengten anything else in the DSG gearbox or is it good to go then?

For this project I dont mind spending money but there are limits to what I think is worth still putting in the R32. I already put a small fortune into the car already
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
@Paulie

Good one, will contact Hendrik via PM this weekend to see what he can tell me
 
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