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HPA Turbo - running issues


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#1
Cuprabhoy

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Having some trouble with my 2004 V6 HPA Turbo. Initially the car broke down and the fuel pump wasn't engaging and the car got towed to the local garage who got the car up back running, but all was not well! The car idled ok but underload the car was barely drivable with misfiring and bogging down as if fuelling or boost was an issue. I've since changed the spark plugs, coil packs, Temperature sensor and fuel filter and the car was running slightly better but still misfiring and bogging down, especially when warm.

 

I took the car for a 40 mile round trip and after stopping for fuel, she wouldn't start. After 100 attempts and 30 minutes, she sparked back to life all be it slightly laboured. Ive ran diagnostics and there are no fault codes, not all together surprising as various codes had been mapped out by the installer of the Conversion who is no longer on the Christmas card list. Given , i've now changed the obvious items, is there anyone out there with intimate knowledge of the R32 with a HPA turbo conversion that could steer me in the right direction to get this sorted and back to enjoying the car over the summer?

 

thanks folks for any info / experience you can give.  Car has been converted for 3 years and has run without many faults during this time...

 

 


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#2
franko180

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The HPA conversion you have is probably a HGP 460 that HPA licensed from HGP, based on the GT30 turbo?

Gaz Jones has performed loads of Turbo conversions on the 3.2, but he is based in Lincolnshire, not exactly next door to Edinburgh but people visit him from all over the UK to get 3.2 work done, cam chains swapped etc.

 

http://www.vagautoca...o.uk/index.html


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#3
rich23 v6

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Have you checked you have power at fuel pump as you said it was not engaging. 

 

Or it could be fuel pump relay under dash with 409 on it. 


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#4
IMG

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The root cause is either going to be fuel, spark or air related. What was the actual issue with the fuel pump and how was it resolved? I just hope the engine wasn't running lean as a result of the fuelling issue...

#5
Cuprabhoy

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The HPA conversion you have is probably a HGP 460 that HPA licensed from HGP, based on the GT30 turbo?

Gaz Jones has performed loads of Turbo conversions on the 3.2, but he is based in Lincolnshire, not exactly next door to Edinburgh but people visit him from all over the UK to get 3.2 work done, cam chains swapped etc.

 

http://www.vagautoca...o.uk/index.html

 

Cheers, yeah I've spoken to Gaz all be it a while ago prior to my conversion.  I should of taken the car to him!  The car originally ran HGP Software with the HPA Anniversary kit and was then custom mapped from the original Audi software.  Car runs a Borg EFR and not the GT30.



#6
Cuprabhoy

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Have you checked you have power at fuel pump as you said it was not engaging. 

 

Or it could be fuel pump relay under dash with 409 on it. 

 

cheers Rich, i've changed the relay and it's not the problem.  Car is running but barely drivable with any sort of throttle.  Low revs, the car is running just fine.



#7
Cuprabhoy

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The root cause is either going to be fuel, spark or air related. What was the actual issue with the fuel pump and how was it resolved? I just hope the engine wasn't running lean as a result of the fuelling issue...

You're quite right bout the 3 sources to the problem.  The fuel pump had some sort of fault that cut it out and this was solved by apparently pushing  the relay in!  So by this diagnostics, it is some sort of electrical connection issue.  However it doesn't cater for the running problem / misfiring under load.  I've changed the relay so now have a perfectly working spare!!!

 

I've also changed:

 

6x plugs

6x coil packs

fuel filter

Temperature sensor...

 

...and it is still misfiring badly and bogging down.  I tried running the car with the MAF disconnected and it was still misfiring.



#8
DubNurd

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measure the fuel pressure for a start. I'd check the compression too.

 

Then look at the live data through VCDS and look for anything not right.

 

Error codes only come up when something is out of range or open circuit etc. lots of parts can be faulty without a code comimg up

 

There's so many things it could be, but without a planned attack, you'll be replacing all sorts of parts without result.


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#9
Lionborg

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With the HPA kit you must be running a second fuel pump. Verify that both fuel pumps is working and then do a compression test. If all is ok, take the car for a drive with VCDS and look in measuring blocks group 1+20+21. This will show you fuel trims in group 1 and engine knock in 20+21
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#10
Cuprabhoy

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Cheers lads - running a dw65v and no external pump.  I'm almost certain its causing the trouble.

 

I tried the obvious fixes above / well, atleast I know where i am with these items which is no bad thing


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#11
IMG

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Cheers lads - running a dw65v and no external pump.  I'm almost certain its causing the trouble.
 
I tried the obvious fixes above / well, atleast I know where i am with these items which is no bad thing


Change the pump. I'm forever seeing fuel rail pressure issues with those pumps now that enough people have run them for a while. I'm glad I decided against one.
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#12
Cuprabhoy

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Change the pump. I'm forever seeing fuel rail pressure issues with those pumps now that enough people have run them for a while. I'm glad I decided against one.

 

I've not heard of any failing  - is it a different story here with the r32's with turbo's?  Like I said, I've never heard of one failing - talk to me guys, mines has only been fitted for 4 months!


Edited by Cuprabhoy, 25 June 2017 - 05:31 PM.


#13
IMG

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Change the pump. I'm forever seeing fuel rail pressure issues with those pumps now that enough people have run them for a while. I'm glad I decided against one.


 
I've not heard of any failing  - is it a different story here with the r32's with turbo's?  Like I said, I've never heard of one failing - talk to me guys, mines has only been fitted for 4 months!


I'm sure Nash from Lebanon is on here, he had issues with them. There's someone else on here who has just had issues as well. A few over on vortex have had issues too. On the flip side there are others who run them without issue. Mixed bag reliability isn't a good thing in any case.

#14
Cuprabhoy

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When I bought it, I had no reason to suspect it was faulty however, it was a bit rattly.  In comparison, the OEM pump didn't click at all when shook softly... will send it back and update.  cheers



#15
Lucifer

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Only time i have known people to have a problem with the dw65v is if not installed properly. 


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#16
jameswalker

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What boost pressure are you running? The injectors inject into the intake manifold which is obviously at boost pressure. The higher the pressure, the beefier the fuel pump needs to be. I have read reports of the DW struggling against 15-20 psi. i.e. leaning out. You can see this in VCDS logs. 

 

Though, this is getting ahead of things. Sounds like its running rough under no boost too. 



#17
SeanyB

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My guess would be the fuel pump. Get a fuel pressure gauge installed 


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#18
Cuprabhoy

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Cant remember off the top of my head but think its about 1.2bar / 16psi?



#19
matsu

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Anyone got any updates on this?



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#20
Cuprabhoy

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Anyone got any updates on this?

 

DW65v was returned 4 weeks ago and they have authorised a replacement pump under warranty.  I'm now considering the other options such as fitting the RS4 pump as an alternative.

 



#21
matsu

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I have spoken to them and they say it probably isn't enough for the power I'm putting out.
I believe Matt has researched it and they were tested up to 500 but not on 6cyl engines.
So I,m back to the same choices again
Bosch 044
Walbro
Or the rs4 modded.


Hurry up and fit one so you can test it out for me lol

#22
Cuprabhoy

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Only time i have known people to have a problem with the dw65v is if not installed properly. 

 

...is a statement you'll never need to use again.

 

I think you made a valid point in another thread about running the fuel tank low - this is something i'll keep an eye on so cheers for that - was a good point


Edited by Cuprabhoy, 11 August 2017 - 03:42 PM.


#23
Cuprabhoy

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Bit of an update folks - Went ahead with the RS pump.  Problem solved  - lovely little piece of kit.  I had to retrofit it into the TT cradle but was straightforward enough - cranked first time and misfire had vanished.

 

Very frustrating exercise with the faulty pump however DW and Coord have been really excellent to deal with.  In the meantime I had real trouble with diagnosing the fuel pump as it wasn't showing in VAGCOM so ended up with new plugs, coil packs, temp sensor and fuel pump relay etc.  just trying to get to the bottom of the issue.

 

The new pump feels rock solid and I gave Rooby a good pasting last night - no issues whatsoever. 


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#24
Cuprabhoy

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My guess would be the fuel pump. Get a fuel pressure gauge installed 

Spot on mate - faulty pump.  It was still trying to work but was failing all over the place.  Dodgy idle, misfiring above 3000rpm, wouldnt start from warm!  Put these together and there wasn't a single consistency other than the pump was knackered!  cheers



#25
Cuprabhoy

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The root cause is either going to be fuel, spark or air related. What was the actual issue with the fuel pump and how was it resolved? I just hope the engine wasn't running lean as a result of the fuelling issue...

Fuel Pump mate -got there eventually.   cheers



#26
DougalR

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I have spoken to them and they say it probably isn't enough for the power I'm putting out.
I believe Matt has researched it and they were tested up to 500 but not on 6cyl engines.
So I,m back to the same choices again
Bosch 044
Walbro
Or the rs4 modded.


Hurry up and fit one so you can test it out for me lol

 

 

Bit of an update folks - Went ahead with the RS pump.  Problem solved  - lovely little piece of kit.  I had to retrofit it into the TT cradle but was straightforward enough - cranked first time and misfire had vanished.

 

Very frustrating exercise with the faulty pump however DW and Coord have been really excellent to deal with.  In the meantime I had real trouble with diagnosing the fuel pump as it wasn't showing in VAGCOM so ended up with new plugs, coil packs, temp sensor and fuel pump relay etc.  just trying to get to the bottom of the issue.

 

The new pump feels rock solid and I gave Rooby a good pasting last night - no issues whatsoever. 

 

 

Hey buddy, don't suppose you have any pics of this being fitted or in there?

Richard(matsu) is having issues,


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#27
Cuprabhoy

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Hey buddy, don't suppose you have any pics of this being fitted or in there?

Richard(matsu) is having issues,

 

Sorry lads, no pics of the install.  Separating the RS pump wasn't pretty as the pump sits inside a cradle in the form of 3 circular clips with 3 legs which are glued to the cage itself - so basically you need to butcher this and then tidy up the cradle/3 circular clips.

 

The RS assembly doesn't have a top seal like the mk4 assembly which is good because while the original pump has a seal to form a tight fit to the top part (4 clip flat part with the hole) the RS pump sits further down inside the mk4 assembly.

 

The mk4 cradle is made from thin plastic so keeping the rs pump inside it's 3 clip cradle, press the RS pump to the bottom of the mk4 cradle.  It's a tight fit - (I split the thin plastic wall ever so slightly on the mk4 cradle doing this but wasn't concerned enough to replace it)

 

The hoses from the mk4 assembly are needed and all I did was cut the original (heat sealed) RS hoses about 1cm above  where they connect to the Fuel Pump and then using a bit of heat and fairy liquid, slide the OEM MK4 hoses over the rs hoses - again, the fit is really tight.  I then used 2 small hose clips over the MK4 hoses and tighten them up - job done

 

If you're familiar with the fuel pump assembly, this is pretty straightforward and everything goes back together like the OEM install.

 

The RS pump is a lovely piece of kit and I think this is prefect for the 3.2 turbo gang.  However if anyone wants to take my warranty replacement DW65v off me, please drop me a message as I received it yesterday from Coord Motorsport.



#28
Cuprabhoy

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If anyone, wants to send me both assembly's then I'd be happy to do another one and photo the install.



#29
matsu

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I could b tempted on this offer actually.
What would I need ?
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#30
DougalR

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If anyone, wants to send me both assembly's then I'd be happy to do another one and photo the install.

 

If you're up for making 2 i might have one too. then least i have it all sorted ready for proper boost in mine later on.

I could b tempted on this offer actually.
What would I need ?

Im guessing the spare R32 basket/ pot you have and a complete RS4 pump by sounds of it? 


May the boost be with you

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