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illegal R32 - Pursuit of happines - MK5 R32 build thread

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#151
Andy

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I believe this is the last upgrade on my list so far. Last but far away from least. Next 2 or 3 posts are going to be covering my future plans with the R32, my new daily and tons of new pictures ;)

POLAR FIS ADVANCED PARAMETER SYSTEM

Polar FIS+ is the plug and play "system" that plug's into CAN-BUS plug and then the CAN-BUS plugs into Polar FIS+.

It provides all sorts of data on main display. You can see total of 36 parameters in real time such as oil temeprature, speed, fuel liters, DSG temperature, exhaust temperatures etc etc. Basically everhing that has a sensor!

You can also track your times such as acceleration from 100-200, 0-200 etc etc.

You can also diagnose the car and set parameters so you don't have to use VCDS everytime :)

Probably one of the best upgrades done to the car you can check the Polar here.

The Polar FIS pluged into CAN modul

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How the screen looks with some quick snaps

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Need to get another one of these again

#152
illegalr32

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Need to get another one of these again

It is golden yeah :) One of the best upgrades



#153
Andy

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Send them a email as I read on vw vortex forum it takes the place of the phone if you have the bt box fitted so hopefully it doesn't..was the connection to the car near the bottom near the peddles or right at the top like my old gttdi was

#154
illegalr32

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Everything with the PolarFis is programmable. Every button on steering wheel can do what you want it to do. The unit is pluged in CAN-BUS plug (uder the steering wheel, where the relay panel is) so taking away bluetooth itself or the buttons for bluetooth on the steering wheel are not logical at all. :)



#155
Andy

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Everything with the PolarFis is programmable. Every button on steering wheel can do what you want it to do. The unit is pluged in CAN-BUS plug (uder the steering wheel, where the relay panel is) so taking away bluetooth itself or the buttons for bluetooth on the steering wheel are not logical at all. :)

yeah that's what I thought also
Reply of the email I send
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#156
illegalr32

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Even if my R32 is on winter nap and I didn't post in here for almost a month fool.gif  that doesn't mean I'm not active here or that nothing is going on behind the stage biggrin.gif I love writing posts so don't be mad for a little longer talk. smile.gif

 

Actually quite some things happened in last month imma show you the biggest one first.

 

Whoever is following this thread, knows that I am enroute to the final version of my R32. Making something unreachable a reality. Whoever knows me in person knows that I am an extremist. Obsessed with perfection and always going over the limit. And it is no different with my R32 and the upgrades that will follow. I know the process is going to take me a few years but hey no biggie!

 

Was just making my financial plan for the next year a week ago, but it didn't take more than a day before I ruined it hahaha (damn you german ebay!)

 

Soooo. Talking about brakes. rofl.gif  The plan was to make custom front 390mm setup and figure something out with dual calliper rear brakes.

 

On November 13th (the day I actually celebrated 23th birthday) I was at work just doing regular job on CNC. When waiting the cutter to finish it's work I went on german ebay and just randomly typed in 400mm bremsen. You know 390 is huge. But it's not a 400. I always wanted 400!! But the price itself was making me turn away everytime!

 

These sets are rare. I mean you can get a new one for 3200+ € but that is damn pricey! diablo.gif

 

What I found was a set of 400mm Audi S8 / Lamborghini Aventador brakes!! Hear this out. Perfect condition, EBC Yellow pads and the discs from Ultimot! Complete set was on the car for only 5500 km!

 

The price. Well. It was set on 1830€ including posting to Slovenia. The seller was a super super nice guy, who actually owns a performance company in Germany and he has an Audi RS3 with over 700hp!!! We made a deal for total of 1650€. Don't know about your fellings but this set is damn cheap for me comapred to other sets!

 

So 4 days later the brakes arrived from Germany. Still cannot believe what I've done to be honest lol.gif These things are huge!!

 

Turbo prep? All my friends are talking me into it but damn no!

 

I can't fit these just yet, because they don't fit under OZ Superleggeras, but not a problem, I already decided that my final go to wheel combo is going to be OZ Ultraleggeras in 19" size, under which the brakes are going to fit just right and tight good.gif

 

So I've decided to store these for some time. Took them apart, cleaned them quickly, organized bolts and everything. Going to build the car in stages and then put it all together when I have everything collected and ready.

 

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Compared to 1,5L bottle of water. Pretty huge right?

 

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Checked the discs. These were 38mm originally, now they are 37,6 mm. Will take me a lifetime to finish these haha biggrin.gif

 

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Shhhh get away brake dust!

 

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Clean

 

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Now some calliper porn

 

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And everything packed and ready to be stored. Gonna finish them slowly.

 

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Front brakes first then! Have yet to do:

- new braided custom front brake lines - in yellow

- getting the brakes resprayed in yellow pearl metallic

- still have to correct the fitting adapter because Audi wheel hub is a bit different but I have an easy fix for that

- getting them nice Lamorghini stickers.

 

Oh almost forgot. Something is happening with the rear brakes also! These are going to be completely custom designed by me, hang on, I'll reveal them as soon as they are ready wink.gif


Edited by illegalr32, 22 November 2020 - 03:34 PM.

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#157
VelovetAndy

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Wow. You do not mess about do you. I have to ask a few questions. The calipers are , err, huge, so what about the number and size of the pistons. You know where I am going on this one. The o.e piston has an area of around 2500mm2 ( 57mm piston ) Lots of people run the Brembo 18z with a total piston area of around 2750mm2 and find that the master cylinder copes  just fine, with perhaps just a touch more pedal travel. If the ones you have bought are up in the 3000mm2 region, then you may need the TTrS 25mm master cylinder . Available but a bit expensive so you may have to budget for one . 
Next, unsprung weight. This may be of no real concern to you as as you are creating something that is for cruising and admiring. I completely understand that , but if you want to use it in anger on some twisty , undulating stuff, then the unsprung weight makes a huge difference . I also imagine that , having bought this brake upgrade at , frankly, a bargain price , you might even get most of your money back if/when you sell your 370mm TTRS stuff. That will be sought after .

 And the rears. Same comments about unsprung weight and master cylinder , especially the latter given the combination of front calipers the size of Switzerland and some 4 pot rears , you might even go to a Touran/Q8/ cayenne master cylinder at 27.4mm ( I think ) 

I am really interested in your rear brake solution. The real bugbear is the handbrake . Forge have a solution that Barspin on here used The Cayenne uses some 4 pots on the rear but I do not know how the handbrake works on those vehicles . ( ie I have not looked ) Ideally , it would be nice to find a 4 pot which has a built -in handbrake , weighs nothing and works on 350mm discs . .

 And finally, 400mm discs under 19” wheels. Boy , that will be close . Looking forward to seeing pictures of this . 
Best of luck. I admire your ambition, imagination and enginuity.
 



#158
illegalr32

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Wow. You do not mess about do you. I have to ask a few questions. The calipers are , err, huge, so what about the number and size of the pistons. You know where I am going on this one. The o.e piston has an area of around 2500mm2 ( 57mm piston ) Lots of people run the Brembo 18z with a total piston area of around 2750mm2 and find that the master cylinder copes  just fine, with perhaps just a touch more pedal travel. If the ones you have bought are up in the 3000mm2 region, then you may need the TTrS 25mm master cylinder . Available but a bit expensive so you may have to budget for one . 
Next, unsprung weight. This may be of no real concern to you as as you are creating something that is for cruising and admiring. I completely understand that , but if you want to use it in anger on some twisty , undulating stuff, then the unsprung weight makes a huge difference . I also imagine that , having bought this brake upgrade at , frankly, a bargain price , you might even get most of your money back if/when you sell your 370mm TTRS stuff. That will be sought after .

 And the rears. Same comments about unsprung weight and master cylinder , especially the latter given the combination of front calipers the size of Switzerland and some 4 pot rears , you might even go to a Touran/Q8/ cayenne master cylinder at 27.4mm ( I think ) 

I am really interested in your rear brake solution. The real bugbear is the handbrake . Forge have a solution that Barspin on here used The Cayenne uses some 4 pots on the rear but I do not know how the handbrake works on those vehicles . ( ie I have not looked ) Ideally , it would be nice to find a 4 pot which has a built -in handbrake , weighs nothing and works on 350mm discs . .

 And finally, 400mm discs under 19” wheels. Boy , that will be close . Looking forward to seeing pictures of this . 
Best of luck. I admire your ambition, imagination and enginuity.
 

Appreciate someone who knows things about brakes as I damn love them probably the most of all parts on the car!  Oh, not selling TTRS ones, moving the callipers to the rear axle biggrin.gif

 

So first things first

 

1. Piston area

 

If we calculate stock R32 piston area

 

Front axle: 57mm single piston = 2550.47 * 2 callipers = 5100,94

Rear axle: 41mm single piston = 1319.59 * 2 callipers = 2639,18

 

And then my setup which is going to run

 

Front axle:  (38mm + 36mm + 32mm ) x 2 pistons * 2 callipers = 11379.36

Rear axle: stock calliper only for handbrake, 44mm x 2 pistons + 41mm x 2 pistons * 2 callipers = 11357.38

 

If we talk about this.

 

First, you are wrong 18Z callipers have piston area of 10990 (and not 2750*2 as you said).

 

I was now running front TTRS's that have an area basically similar to my new  6-pot huge callipers, and just over a bit 18Z's. That's why I can confirm, 100% that master cylinder of 23,81mm is going to work just perfect with all these "bigger" front brake kits. I've tried pushing TTRS's to the limit, braking down from 180 km/h to a 50 km/h and I can tell you the stopping force is unreal. So damn brutal that my tires squeak and emergency hazard lights came on. Pedal feel? Same as with OEM brakes. Nothing has changed.

 

First axle is covered, it's going to work fine. You see, the bigger stopping force comes from bigger rotors, not bigger piston area. Piston area's of bigger brakes are almost identical in every case.

 

The problem is, because I am moving my TTRS 4-pots to the rear axle, producing my own carrier that is going to work with 356 mm discs (yes 370's could be used but the concept is far more complex, with using hydraulic handbrake. Can be done, can be developed to work with OEM handbrake lever but I'm just going to say no to 14mm bigger discs and go with 356mm option - it's more than I ever wanted anyway).

 

So total "area that has to be pushed now" is 22736.74 mm2 > 7740.12MM2 OEM

 

I actually know only 2 guys  that are using these front brakes on R32's. Talked to one recently and he is also using rear dual calliper setup with basically the same or just a bit under piston area that I am going to run. Stock master cylinder. Says no problemos. Everything is just fine, pedal is a little bit lower but still no need for the 25mm master. And he is supercharged so...

 

My conclusion is trying it first with OEM master. If the pedal is going to act wierd I am just going to buy TTRS / RS3 one. Not a problem. Full build will cost me over 40k including the car so there is no reason to save on a master if things go in that direction.

 

 

2. Unspurng weight. Actually I don't even care about it. Front brakes will now weight a bit over 46 kg's total (both sides), idk how much the originals weight but not a far less. I am also going to run far lighter wheels than now. Have to say I hate fkin calculating anything related to physics because I prove it everytime in person that things on paper are just wrong. The car as it is rides amazing, no oversteer, no understeer. It eats corners. It eats Megan RS when talking about taking lines purely because of the suspension setup I run, and stabi's are doing an amazing job. Racing the streets is something I try to avoid with my R at all costs because losing this as my life project / work would make me go nuts haha rofl.gif So yes, my whole intention with this build is mostly because of the "looks" that I vision in my head, not other heads wink.gif  Far more comfy pushing Passat over the limits, have some videos with pushing mk5 gti's over the comfy zone with my family wagon. Poor 4 zyl boys crazy.gif

 

3. These are going to fit under 19" Ultras just perfect smile.gif

 

Thank you again Andy for kind words and a good talk! Will report once I fit this but can't see it coming for quite some time yet

 

126795912-2240736666069848-1931248350906


Edited by illegalr32, 22 November 2020 - 11:09 PM.


#159
VelovetAndy

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Evening,

 The new calipers you plan to use are not as large , in piston size, as I had expected and I agree that the increase in braking performance comes from an increase in torque caused by the increase in radius. I was doing my piston comparisons based on just one side of one caliper. The 18z calipers that I rebuilt had 30 +34+ 38mm pistons which comes to 2749mm2 compared to the o.e of around 2500mm2 as you say . We do agree as if you multiply the above by 4 ( 2 piston groups and 2 calipers  you get your 10,990mm2 . In any event, the proof of the concept comes when you use it , but I always find it helpful to do the maths first to check that what I am planning has at least a theoretical basis on which to proceed. 
As for unsprung weight , the issue is mostly about the ability of the damper to control the motion of the hub/brake / wheel and ancillary items so attached. However, in terms of overall performance  the impact is less, it is important when the road surface is less than perfect .

I looked again at the kit that Forge do for the rear brake , using their 4 pot caliper , two piece rotor and a clever arrangement that enables the handbrake to operate by locking the hydraulic line thus preventing the pistons from retracting .  Neat but costs over £1500, and you already have the calipers from the front so apart from new discs and the adapters, you are there . 
I too am a bit keen on brakes and share your enthusiasm for them. 
 

Keep your plans coming . Great stuff.


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#160
illegalr32

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Evening,
The new calipers you plan to use are not as large , in piston size, as I had expected and I agree that the increase in braking performance comes from an increase in torque caused by the increase in radius. I was doing my piston comparisons based on just one side of one caliper. The 18z calipers that I rebuilt had 30 +34+ 38mm pistons which comes to 2749mm2 compared to the o.e of around 2500mm2 as you say . We do agree as if you multiply the above by 4 ( 2 piston groups and 2 calipers you get your 10,990mm2 . In any event, the proof of the concept comes when you use it , but I always find it helpful to do the maths first to check that what I am planning has at least a theoretical basis on which to proceed.
As for unsprung weight , the issue is mostly about the ability of the damper to control the motion of the hub/brake / wheel and ancillary items so attached. However, in terms of overall performance the impact is less, it is important when the road surface is less than perfect .
I looked again at the kit that Forge do for the rear brake , using their 4 pot caliper , two piece rotor and a clever arrangement that enables the handbrake to operate by locking the hydraulic line thus preventing the pistons from retracting . Neat but costs over £1500, and you already have the calipers from the front so apart from new discs and the adapters, you are there .
I too am a bit keen on brakes and share your enthusiasm for them.

Keep your plans coming . Great stuff.

Oh then your math about 18Z's was correct. smile.gif I also love to calculate things but even more than that I love statistics biggrin.gif I mean the difference in area is huge compared to the OEM so I'll see how the pedal is going to feel after I install the brakes completely smile.gif

Think I am going to be fine with unsprung weight because most of the time the car is going to sit in the garage except 2-3 months summer time. Also have a trailer planned so I can tow the R32 around the EU shows with the Passat. But that is a long long term goal smile.gif

Oh yea about forge rears. I've actually been into talks wih Marvin from the forum who had their kit installed at rears. But as you said it's pricey pricey! Been thinking all options but will stay with TTRS+OEM calliper at the back smile.gif

How's your build going? Haven't read much about it lately (gotta catch some!! biggrin.gif)

Edited by illegalr32, 24 November 2020 - 05:20 AM.


#161
VelovetAndy

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Hi. Yes.Mine. I completed the front brake upgrade which I wrote about . I am in the process of trying to change the seats ( negotiating  a price on second hand wingbacks is a bit long winded) and the ones I want will not fit without some fabrication on my part, and then on the list are the side skirts, the front splitter, the rear diffuser ( combination of Maxton and TRW) . I also have a rear brake itch to scratch . I like your idea of 4 pots on the rear, and I can see why it makes life easy to keep the o.e caliper . I am toying with using another Combrake caliper but a smaller 4 pot in their range and then going with 340/350mm two piece disc , in which case , I would keep the o.e caliper for the hand brake . Oh, question, will you blank off the hydraulics to your o.e handbrake caliper or use both sets of pads? I assume the former .

The other job is the paintwork, which is in good condition but on close inspection, needs a proper detail , like you did on your stunning car . 
So, all in all, lots still to do and I have not mentioned the ‘E’ word............engine upgrades . Definitely for 2021 I think .


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#162
illegalr32

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Hi. Yes.Mine. I completed the front brake upgrade which I wrote about . I am in the process of trying to change the seats ( negotiating  a price on second hand wingbacks is a bit long winded) and the ones I want will not fit without some fabrication on my part, and then on the list are the side skirts, the front splitter, the rear diffuser ( combination of Maxton and TRW) . I also have a rear brake itch to scratch . I like your idea of 4 pots on the rear, and I can see why it makes life easy to keep the o.e caliper . I am toying with using another Combrake caliper but a smaller 4 pot in their range and then going with 340/350mm two piece disc , in which case , I would keep the o.e caliper for the hand brake . Oh, question, will you blank off the hydraulics to your o.e handbrake caliper or use both sets of pads? I assume the former .

The other job is the paintwork, which is in good condition but on close inspection, needs a proper detail , like you did on your stunning car . 
So, all in all, lots still to do and I have not mentioned the ‘E’ word............engine upgrades . Definitely for 2021 I think .

Very nice to hear! A lot of future plans to keep you busy and that is awesome!  Also love the idea about dual rear's. I'm going to send you dual rear setup data into PM later tonight (the best possible option to go with and the easiest one - which I may consider too if TTRS callipers won't with under rear wheels) ;)

 

And yes, OEM calliper hydro plug has to be blanked it's completely fine to run just the handbrake cable which moves the piston through the spring :)



#163
VelovetAndy

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Thank you . As suspected . Link received . Read .This is the way forward for a rear brake upgrade . 
 


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