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C38 Rotrex Kit Info.....


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#1
nigp007

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Ok so a few people have asked for a price of my kit......

This is a rough cost of parts needed.... If I miss anything can people tell me and I"ll add it to the list.......

Also this is for information only prices may vary a little.

£1665.00 Rotrex C38-81 charger with oil and cooler and pulley
£1000 Rotrex Bracket and Pulley to fit R32
£100-£200 Intercooler
£90 Spark Plugs
£1000ish Forged Rods & Pistons & Bolts
£200ish Air Filter
£200-300 Fuel Pump
£400ish 550cc Injectors
£250ish Changed the Rotrex oil cooler
£150ish Head-gasket plus bolts and race bearings
£600ish Pipe work and stainless elbows and Clamps
£100-£200 MAF either RS4 MAF or the UM solution that I have.
£600ish Mapping the car
£1500ish Manifolds Decat and 3 inch exhaust
£200/300 New under tray to be made as the plastic one won't fit anymore( big boost pipe in the way )
£500 Just extra stuff I needed Belts, Oil, Gaskets, Gauges, Postage etc........

This setup is currently running 460Bhp and is very easy to turn up to above 500Bhp with minimum cost.

All the above prices are a rough price and vat is included... Please tell me what I've missed and I'll add it to the list.....

Also don't forget you need to pay for fitting on the above.....

Hope this helps people out there that are seriously interested in doing this...

Nige.....
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#2
alexmac

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So is this a kit you have made/bought your self?
I am saving to FI my R but it won't be until late next year if not 2015. So I have plenty of time to research my options.
I would prefer to turbo but supercharge is appealing because it's cheaper. But I guess that's not really the way to look at it.

#3
alexmac

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Good write up though mate 👍 thanks.

#4
Moly90

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Sweet in on this!! What pulley dis you say u had 88mm?
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#5
nigp007

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80mm pulley on mine...

#6
Moly90

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Sorted :)
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#7
CorradoR32

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This setup is currently running 460Bhp and is very easy to turn up to above 500Bhp with minimum cost.


At what boost pressure and what is the torque output, and at what rpm does it peak in the rev range? At what rpm do you see positive boost pressure?

What pulley size is required for 500hp and how close is that to running the compressor out of it's efficiency zone? I would imagine on a big engine like the R32, the C38-91 would be more comfortable providing 500+? But then again the boost threshold would be moved even further up the rev band.

Got any torque curves?

Sorry for all the Qs, just weighing up some options.

I would prefer to turbo but supercharge is appealing because it's cheaper.


That's like saying "I'd rather have the chicken & mushroom pie, but will take the Steak & Ale pie because it's cheaper". What about flavour & texture? Aren't they important to you? Turbos and S/Cs have very different power deliveries and character, noises etc. I would really recommend trying before buying.

S/Cing is not cheaper than turboing when it comes to decompressing the block. The price of the Rotrex and bracket etc easily buys you the main turbo ingredients. There is this myth that S/Cing is massively cheaper than Turboing. It isn't. It's only HGP and JBS that sell the ridiculously priced stuff. It can be done a lot cheaper than that.

The method you choose should be the one you prefer to drive and puts the biggest smile on your face, or you could end up making an expensive mistake, like I did when trying S/Cs on my old VR6.
Did have: 94 Corrado R32
Now have: 2003 Golf R32
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#8
nigp007

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At what boost pressure and what is the torque output, and at what rpm does it peak in the rev range? At what rpm do you see positive boost pressure?

What pulley size is required for 500hp and how close is that to running the compressor out of it's efficiency zone? I would imagine on a big engine like the R32, the C38-91 would be more comfortable providing 500+? But then again the boost threshold would be moved even further up the rev band.

Got any torque curves?



Sorry for all the Qs, just weighing up some options.








That's like saying "I'd rather have the chicken & mushroom pie, but will take the Steak & Ale pie because it's cheaper". What about flavour & texture? Aren't they important to you? Turbos and S/Cs have very different power deliveries and character, noises etc. I would really recommend trying before buying.

S/Cing is not cheaper than turboing when it comes to decompressing the block. The price of the Rotrex and bracket etc easily buys you the main turbo ingredients. There is this myth that S/Cing is massively cheaper than Turboing. It isn't. It's only HGP and JBS that sell the ridiculously priced stuff. It can be done a lot cheaper than that.

The method you choose should be the one you prefer to drive and puts the biggest smile on your face, or you could end up making an expensive mistake, like I did when trying S/Cs on my old VR6.








You need to talk to a expert mate at that ain't me.

Answering that seems like homework.


#9
CorradoR32

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Sorry mate, I made an assumption there!

I could probably answer my own questions if I saw your dyno plots though.
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#10
H5R

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NigP, have you done any clutch / gearbox / haldex upgrades at all? And at the power youre running have you had any problems with those?

Cheers :)
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#11
Kieran

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Thought I should chime in on this,

Might be worth adding a 4.5-4bar FPR to the list £20-60.

To answer some of Corrador32’s questions

Mine is fitted with a 75mm pulley, making just under 20psi. Similar setup to Nige, only engine mod was low comp pistons.

I think to get the 500 like mine the charger is being over spun by something like 12%, my old C30 was over spun buy 20-30% (I think) to get 474hp.
Off the top of my head positive boost starts at 3.5-4k rpmPosted Image
Posted Image
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#12
nigp007

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Cheers Kieran.

#13
nigp007

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NigP, have you done any clutch / gearbox / haldex upgrades at all? And at the power youre running have you had any problems with those?

Cheers :)


No not yet mate.

Got a Blue Haldex to go on and Lsd and coilovers.

But just enjoying the car at the moment.

I don't really open it up as it's too fast for uk roads.
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#14
H5R

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Brilliant, cheers! :)

Kieran - I dont know if Im missing something simple, but whats the bottom RR printout for?
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#15
Kieran

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Brilliant, cheers! :)

Kieran - I dont know if Im missing something simple, but whats the bottom RR printout for?

Top is flywheel hp, Bottom is wheel hp. One is calculated from the other, can't remember which way round it is.

#16
H5R

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Ah, makes sense now! Cheers
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#17
alexmac

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That's like saying "I'd rather have the chicken & mushroom pie, but will take the Steak & Ale pie because it's cheaper". What about flavour & texture? Aren't they important to you? Turbos and S/Cs have very different power deliveries and character, noises etc. I would really recommend trying before buying.

S/Cing is not cheaper than turboing when it comes to decompressing the block. The price of the Rotrex and bracket etc easily buys you the main turbo ingredients. There is this myth that S/Cing is massively cheaper than Turboing. It isn't. It's only HGP and JBS that sell the ridiculously priced stuff. It can be done a lot cheaper than that.

The method you choose should be the one you prefer to drive and puts the biggest smile on your face, or you could end up making an expensive mistake, like I did when trying S/Cs on my old VR6.


Ha yea I know, well that was what I was getting at. I don't want to spend 10K on a jbs kit, I think it's a ridiculous price to spend on your car and you only get 380 bhp and 360ft-lbs.
I'll never get to try out what a turbo and a sc r32 will feel like because know one anywhere near me that I know of has one.
This is exactly why I want to research hard into this.
I prefer the sound of a sc than turbo.
I want reliability like everyone does, I want tune ability from the kit.


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#18
Toffs

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Ha yea I know, well that was what I was getting at. I don't want to spend 10K on a jbs kit, I think it's a ridiculous price to spend on your car and you only get 380 bhp and 360ft-lbs.
I'll never get to try out what a turbo and a sc r32 will feel like because know one anywhere near me that I know of has one.
This is exactly why I want to research hard into this.
I prefer the sound of a sc than turbo.
I want reliability like everyone does, I want tune ability from the kit.


Sounds a bit wiser :)

At the end of the day, for our cars it's easier to get bigger power (over 450bhp) from a turbo, and generally they are faster. However, they can be more complicated and sometimes less reliable. Lots will probably disagree with what I say and they are probably right.

You don't live a million miles away from me. After Christmas we should meet up and you can decide what you think. Not sure who's the nearest SC car around Dorset, there was a chappy in Poole maybe ?


Unless you're a bit of a nut, I wouldn't seriously consider spending £££'s on modifications to a £5-6K car, but up to you. I am mad.
 0-60: 3.7sec                                            BHP: 450-500                        Torque: 700+ Nm                              Fun: Incalculable
gallery_2294_1980_2835.jpg gallery_2294_1980_8853.png gallery_2294_1980_12960.jpg gallery_2294_1980_20971.jpg

 


#19
alexmac

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Sounds a bit wiser :)

At the end of the day, for our cars it's easier to get bigger power (over 450bhp) from a turbo, and generally they are faster. However, they can be more complicated and sometimes less reliable. Lots will probably disagree with what I say and they are probably right.

You don't live a million miles away from me. After Christmas we should meet up and you can decide what you think. Not sure who's the nearest SC car around Dorset, there was a chappy in Poole maybe ?


Unless you're a bit of a nut, I wouldn't seriously consider spending £££'s on modifications to a £5-6K car, but up to you. I am mad.


Thanks for your good advice toffs. Yes would defiantly be up for a meet, I have only met one person with an r32 but he didn't have FI. So yes I would love to have a ride in a turbo'd R.
And yes I am a nut, completely mad about cars. :)


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#20
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Takes a special kind of madness to own & upgrade any FI R32.........I was very lucky with mine as it never missed a beat and was seriously quick when needed & still ran the original clutch even after 20,000 miles of FI

Buy one thats already done(but not vastly overpriced) and literally save yourself thousands ;)

#21
alexmac

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Takes a special kind of madness to own & upgrade any FI R32.........I was very lucky with mine as it never missed a beat and was seriously quick when needed & still ran the original clutch even after 20,000 miles of FI

Buy one thats already done(but not vastly overpriced) and literally save yourself thousands ;)


I couldn't sell my R now I know it to well :)


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#22
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I couldn't sell my R now I know it to well :)


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You'll find 95% of FI owned R's are extremely well cared for, above & beyond 'normal' R's :)

#23
CorradoR32

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To answer some of Corrador32’s questions

Mine is fitted with a 75mm pulley, making just under 20psi. Similar setup to Nige, only engine mod was low comp pistons.

I think to get the 500 like mine the charger is being over spun by something like 12%, my old C30 was over spun buy 20-30% (I think) to get 474hp.
Off the top of my head positive boost starts at 3.5-4k rpmPosted Image
Posted Image


Brilliant, thank you!

For me personally I would want to keep the charger in it's comfort zone, so I'd probably go for the beastly C38-91, but then again, I wouldn't want the boost to kick in later than 3.5K either. It would be nice to get the boost to chime in just when the R32's torque peak subsides, around 2800rpm. Boost is never straight forward!

Kudos to you and not knocking your setup at all, 474hp is a lot by anyone's standards.

What pistons did you go with? Wossner?


Ha yea I know, well that was what I was getting at. I don't want to spend 10K on a jbs kit, I think it's a ridiculous price to spend on your car and you only get 380 bhp and 360ft-lbs.
I'll never get to try out what a turbo and a sc r32 will feel like because know one anywhere near me that I know of has one.
This is exactly why I want to research hard into this.
I prefer the sound of a sc than turbo.
I want reliability like everyone does, I want tune ability from the kit.


I have no idea how JBS stay in business with prices like that but obviously R32 tuning isn't their bread and butter or they'd have gone under ages ago :)

Get yourself out on some road trips mate and find out :) Honestly, when it comes to spending this kind of money. Don't take anyone's word on which is best, decide for yourself.

Turbos will give you more tunability if you pick one with enough headroom. More boost is simply a turn of a knob or an easy software change.

Another advantage of turbos is they will keep spinning until the target boost is achieved, so you don't need to worry about intercoolers and pipework volume sapping boost like you do with S/Cs. You can also have switchable boost with intelligent boost controllers. 8psi, 1 bar, 1.2 bar, which ever takes your fancy.

I've done NA tuning, S/Cs and turbos and the thrust and noises a turbo provide never gets boring :)

In terms of reliability, there are 2 major concerns with turbos - heat management and drivetrain integrity.
Get greedy with the boost and you'll be smashing gears. This can be mitigated by choosing a 'laggier' turbo that kicks in higher up the revs, and simple things like backing off the gas when accelerating over bumps can save you a cog or 2 because tyres losing and suddenly regaining grip can bust gears as well, especially with 4WD.

You can either go with a boost pressure the drivetrain is comfortable with, or fork out loads on uprated gear sets and clutches. As I say, get greedy with the boost and it will absolutely clobber your wallet.
Turbos - naughty, but nice :)

An advantage with turbos is it's all in the engine bay, easy to get at and the MAF is warm and dry in it's natural home.

Now, Mr Rotrex, he works extremely well on the R32 because you get the R32's natural torquiness down low, with a thumping great top end surge.

Things to consider are the aforementioned boost threshold (doesn't kick in until 3.5-4K, depending on size) and it's mounted low on the MK4, where it and the MAF / filter etc are exposed to water & dirt.

For S/Cs, I would love to do something like HPA did with their VF typhoon kit, which protects the MAF and gives you a proper 'airbox'

Keep doing your research but do try and drive one of each. I'm sure the guys on here wouldn't mind taking you for a spin :) I wish I'd done that when I had my VR6. I remember with the S/Cs, passengers never really commented on the power but when I turboed it, they were like "fcuk me that's quick" and just wet themselves laughing :)

Posted Image
Did have: 94 Corrado R32
Now have: 2003 Golf R32
Posted Image

#24
alexmac

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Brilliant, thank you!

For me personally I would want to keep the charger in it's comfort zone, so I'd probably go for the beastly C38-91, but then again, I wouldn't want the boost to kick in later than 3.5K either. It would be nice to get the boost to chime in just when the R32's torque peak subsides, around 2800rpm. Boost is never straight forward!

Kudos to you and not knocking your setup at all, 474hp is a lot by anyone's standards.

What pistons did you go with? Wossner?




I have no idea how JBS stay in business with prices like that but obviously R32 tuning isn't their bread and butter or they'd have gone under ages ago :)

Get yourself out on some road trips mate and find out :) Honestly, when it comes to spending this kind of money. Don't take anyone's word on which is best, decide for yourself.

Turbos will give you more tunability if you pick one with enough headroom. More boost is simply a turn of a knob or an easy software change.

Another advantage of turbos is they will keep spinning until the target boost is achieved, so you don't need to worry about intercoolers and pipework volume sapping boost like you do with S/Cs. You can also have switchable boost with intelligent boost controllers. 8psi, 1 bar, 1.2 bar, which ever takes your fancy.

I've done NA tuning, S/Cs and turbos and the thrust and noises a turbo provide never gets boring :)

In terms of reliability, there are 2 major concerns with turbos - heat management and drivetrain integrity.
Get greedy with the boost and you'll be smashing gears. This can be mitigated by choosing a 'laggier' turbo that kicks in higher up the revs, and simple things like backing off the gas when accelerating over bumps can save you a cog or 2 because tyres losing and suddenly regaining grip can bust gears as well, especially with 4WD.

You can either go with a boost pressure the drivetrain is comfortable with, or fork out loads on uprated gear sets and clutches. As I say, get greedy with the boost and it will absolutely clobber your wallet.
Turbos - naughty, but nice :)

An advantage with turbos is it's all in the engine bay, easy to get at and the MAF is warm and dry in it's natural home.

Now, Mr Rotrex, he works extremely well on the R32 because you get the R32's natural torquiness down low, with a thumping great top end surge.

Things to consider are the aforementioned boost threshold (doesn't kick in until 3.5-4K, depending on size) and it's mounted low on the MK4, where it and the MAF / filter etc are exposed to water & dirt.

For S/Cs, I would love to do something like HPA did with their VF typhoon kit, which protects the MAF and gives you a proper 'airbox'

Keep doing your research but do try and drive one of each. I'm sure the guys on here wouldn't mind taking you for a spin :) I wish I'd done that when I had my VR6. I remember with the S/Cs, passengers never really commented on the power but when I turboed it, they were like "fcuk me that's quick" and just wet themselves laughing :)

Posted Image


Great information mate, thanks for that. Can't say I am keen of the sc kit being so low and open to the elements.
With any luck I'll get a ride in toffs turbo and then I'll just need to find someone with an sc kit that fancies a meet up.

I think the turbo is seeming more appealing to me so far, I think ill save solid for a year so I can build a decent kit and uprated everything else. I want to do it right and I just as well do it when the engine and gearbox is out. I don't want to plonk a kit on and then a few months down the line have to strip everything down because I've shredded things apart.


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#25
JamesBaby

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I'm not sure how accurate or upto date the above mentioned Rotrex SC and brackets costs are. But I've just been quoted €2500 (£2174) for a RUF Supercharger, Pulley and Bracket delivered.

Does anyone know where to get injectors at a good price?. (I'm thinking 550cc Bosch EV14 with the adaptors?) They seem readily available from the USA, but surely there is someone local?

Also, what pipework is required for a non intercooled setup?, Is silicone piping the way to go or hard pipes?, and again, which companies could help make these locally?

James
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#26
nigp007

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It's pretty accurate James.

I only found one place willing to sell the bracket on its own wich was CCR Racing.

They wouldn't deal with me direct so had to get it through someone else which all added up.

The Rotex was from Richard at TTS with 10% discount.

Try the Phirm for injectors they sourced my 550's.

I should off copied the bracket. It wasn't to complicated.

There isn't to many tuners that will help until you get your hand in your pocket.

I had so many problems mapping the car I nearly gave up. I'm just glad I stuck with it now as it's 100% perfect.


#27
nigp007

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Just spoke to TTS.

C38 range with oil and oil reservoir. No oil cooler.

£1651 + vat.

#28
JamesBaby

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Cheers for the info mate. The Rotrex SC is quite expensive then. Makes the Storm 5k, intercooled 'drive in drive out' option look like a better proposition . Especially when one considers the mapping is included.

So taking into account the cost of the RUF SC if considering DIY, there isn't much of a saving to be had. Stage 2 from Carlicious is €5249 (£4450).

James
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#29
nigp007

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The Storm kit does seem good value.

The Rotrex is an awesome piece of kit.

Also mate if you want to take a trip to my area I'll take you for a spin and you can have a drive if you want.



#30
Moly90

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Glad u said where to get bracket as was unsure about that one :)
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