VW Golf R32 Forum banner
21 - 32 of 32 Posts

· Registered
MkV R32
Joined
·
72 Posts
So.... for clarification on the timing map. In this map, the ECM will further advance the timing when you are putting your foot down, according to read lambda value, in addition to the base ignition timing map through the RPM range. You are simply removing the additional timing to prevent detonation (spark knock) which the knock sensor will pick up and tell the ECM to retard the timing back, losing power. Correct?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 · (Edited)
So.... for clarification on the timing map. In this map, the ECM will further advance the timing when you are putting your foot down, according to read lambda value, in addition to the base ignition timing map through the RPM range. You are simply removing the additional timing to prevent detonation (spark knock) which the knock sensor will pick up and tell the ECM to retard the timing back, losing power. Correct?
Yes 100% correct.

Below is an early tuning example of mine.
All i did to the stock map was to decrease lambda to a quite rich 0.85. I was surprised to see more knock. It was supposed to help decrease it!
The green line is RPM, it zig zags because the car accelerated from standstill and it changed gears, up to 5th. The other three are the ignition retard to three cylinders 1,5,3 (0,1,2 on the plot). These three lines should have remained at zero, a flat line at the top of the graph, instead they dropped, some way down to -8.25 degrees, and to make it even worse, they only slowly recovered. So the whole run had these two cylinders (I didnt show the other 3) being retarded by a lot. That map mentioned before was the reason why extra fuel made the knock worse instead of better.
Electricity Automotive lighting Rectangle Midnight Door


A few days ago I added a devils own water injection system, just before the air filter box intake under the bonnet. Not the proper way to do it, but as a quick non invasive test. Result was that I could add an extra 6 degrees of timing, but alas, 0-60 was still 5.7 to 5.8s.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Ignition Timing
---------------

We all know that ignition timing plays a big part in getting the most power out of an engine.
It turns out that the more advance we can give, before detonation or preignition occurs, the more torque.
So tuners will strive to squeeze as much advance as possible, usually by making the mixture
richer than stock, which in theory allows a little more timing.

Here I will let you know how you can play with the timing yourself.
Having just shown you how to alter the fuel lambda at high loads (leave low power areas alone when tuning, just focus on
loads of 80% and above), we can now focus on ignition timing.
The 022906032CA has a few base timing maps they are KFZW,KFZW2, KFZWA and KFZWA2. Later Ecus have a few more.

The values in these maps are 'averaged' depending on camshaft advancement to give a value called 'zwgru'. This is the most basic timing value which is again altered by other variables before it finally becomes 'zwout'.

One way to change the timing is to alter all of these four maps, add or take away timing at the higher load area,(80% and above) in the mid to high rpm region. Simply add or subtract timing at the same location in all four maps.

A simple way to see if you could use more timing is to use VCDS to log blocks 20 and 24 to a file. This will give you rpm, load and cylinder timing retardation for all cylinders. Do a WOT run in 3rd and look for any retard back at home. If you get the odd one or two cylinders with 2 or less degree of retard, try adding a few degrees only and do another run to see if things got worse or not.
If most cylinders retarded,remove timing around the area where the knock started only and try again. Be aware that one cylinder,cylinder 2, always shows a retard, above about 5100 rpm, of -1.5 degrees, so it is not a real knock.
Alternatively, make the lambda richer as in the previous post.

If you have performance cams, it would be quite a priority to see if the stock timing is not too much.

So remember, get good at logging with a cheap VCDS clone before spending too much time thinking about tuning!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter · #25 · (Edited)
Welcome mate!. I still havent given the schematic of how I wire up the ECU so as to flash it while ECU sits in the car. I have tried doing it by just pressing the bootmode button and turning on the ignition but although the ECU seems to be in bootmode (dashbard flashes, ECU not responding to normal commands ) it still wont work. Also tried the same with DSG fuses taken out , just in case the K-line is also used by the TCU but again no good. My method relies on disconnecting the + battery terminal and powering up the ecu via the fuse box and a banana socket I added. A diode needed to be added to the wiring loom when I took out the ecu for the first time. A diode is also added to Galletto or MPPS. Very easy to do all this, just sounds harder than it was. Alternative is to remove ECU each time and bench flash. I dont do that as I've flashed at least 50 times! Remember, never use the standard OBD Kess method. If it hangs half way you're screwed!
I've deliberately turned off power half way and done all sorts of bad things, but always managed to put the original binaries back using this bench method.It also doesn't add to the attempted flashes counter.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Here is the setup I use. It works very well. The alternative is to make it easy to remove the ECU and bench flash it by applying signal (Kline from galletto) , 3x +12V and one of the grounds, as described in the last picture.



Motor vehicle Font Engineering Parallel Screenshot

Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Screenshot
 

· Registered
MkV R32
Joined
·
72 Posts
Fantastic!! Very impressive! Its nice knowing there are guys out there who understand wiring diagrams as well as I do. 2 questions; 1. Why not just disconnect the main power terminal from the battery in the fuse panel under the hood so you don't have to remove the battery cable, i.e. have to pull up the spare tire and remove the 326 bolts on the battery cover? Its the big fat black wire that feeds it on the far left. It would make the flashing process easier plus you won't have a long wire running through the car. 2. What about connecting into the 12V connection in the OBD2 port with diode, like pin 21 on the ECM? That way you could do everything under the hood and don't have to crack open the cable.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Fantastic!! Very impressive! Its nice knowing there are guys out there who understand wiring diagrams as well as I do. 2 questions; 1. Why not just disconnect the main power terminal from the battery in the fuse panel under the hood so you don't have to remove the battery cable, i.e. have to pull up the spare tire and remove the 326 bolts on the battery cover? Its the big fat black wire that feeds it on the far left. It would make the flashing process easier plus you won't have a long wire running through the car. 2. What about connecting into the 12V connection in the OBD2 port with diode, like pin 21 on the ECM? That way you could do everything under the hood and don't have to crack open the cable.
Hi Guido, I think you have some good ideas there. I had to replace the battery when I purchased the car and left the lid off the compartment. Also the original method I used to power the ecu used an external power supply, and the battery earth was disconnected instead. If the fat wire to the fuse box is the only place powering things then it is safe to disconnect just there and have a neater system than the one I use.
The diode in the obd port sounds like a great idea too, never thought of that one!
 

· Registered
MkV R32
Joined
·
72 Posts
I'm going to do that to mine when I get it wired up and I'll let you know how it goes. Still going to be a bit before I can get that done though. I've still got body work to do. Plus I wanna drive it some before I start messing with the mapping.
 

· Registered
MkV R32
Joined
·
72 Posts
Did a 0-60 run yesterday. It's right about 5.2 sec. I'm sure I can get it in the 4s with launch control and some tuning. My friend that I got hooked on VWs after I sold him my Stage 1+ APR 2009 GTI, found me an ECM for $100. I hadn't even tried to look for one yet. I was concentrating on finishing the car 1st. That's a good friend. I got him so hooked that he sold the 09 GTI and upgraded to a 2012 Golf R. Its STAGE 3 APR tuned with all "Forged" performance parts and brakes. Stupid fast!!! We have to put in an upgraded clutch. It came with a stage 2 clutch of unknown origin, but he smoked that one. Too much torque. He bought a Southbend Stage 3. Now I just need to have a weekend that my lift is free. He also found some other WinOLS software and a bunch of maps plus some training videos on how to use the software on a deep dark hole somewhere on the web.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Did a 0-60 run yesterday. It's right about 5.2 sec. I'm sure I can get it in the 4s with launch control and some tuning. My friend that I got hooked on VWs after I sold him my Stage 1+ APR 2009 GTI, found me an ECM for $100. I hadn't even tried to look for one yet. I was concentrating on finishing the car 1st. That's a good friend. I got him so hooked that he sold the 09 GTI and upgraded to a 2012 Golf R. Its STAGE 3 APR tuned with all "Forged" performance parts and brakes. Stupid fast!!! We have to put in an upgraded clutch. It came with a stage 2 clutch of unknown origin, but he smoked that one. Too much torque. He bought a Southbend Stage 3. Now I just need to have a weekend that my lift is free. He also found some other WinOLS software and a bunch of maps plus some training videos on how to use the software on a deep dark hole somewhere on the web.
Awesome! Those cams made a massive difference! My guess is that high fours shall manifest soon.
My advice is to keep your original ecu stashed away and play with the gifted one.
Back up all 3 components, Mcp, flash ,eeprom. Convert it into CE version and do immo off , so you can do the best logging and mods.
You can try newer winols but they probably dont do our checksums.
 
21 - 32 of 32 Posts
Top